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Traveller-digest      Sunday, December 5 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1443<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
Re: OT: Must buy game<BR>
K.I.S.S! (was Professional Stereotyping)<BR>
Red Dwarf, canon for MTU<BR>
EW Modules<BR>
Re: Roger Sanger ... BAD, BAD, BAD???<BR>
RE: 3D Star Maps and Jump 1<BR>
Re: Phantom world in the Spinward Marches<BR>
Re: GT: Trade routes question<BR>
Re: OT: Must buy game (No go on Nova)<BR>
Re: Cannon Fodder<BR>
Re: Sci fi films<BR>
Re: Cannon Fodder<BR>
Re: OT: Must buy game<BR>
Re: Sci fi films<BR>
Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
Re: Cannon Fodder<BR>
Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
Cleaning (was Re: Sci fi films)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 20:20:17 -0500<BR>
From: Glenn Grant <neo@total.net><BR>
Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
<BR>
Kurtis,<BR>
<BR>
Interesting data, even if kinda skewed by Hipparcos sampling criteria.<BR>
<BR>
If you're sharing, I'd be interested in receiving a copy of your star list<BR>
with coordinates.  Are the stars named?  I seem to recall reading (on the<BR>
Starmap mailing list) that the Hipparcos data didn't include star names,<BR>
just catalogue numbers - and not the same numbers used in Gliese, IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
Something to consider:  on top of the red dwarfs missing from the Hipparcos<BR>
data, there are probably lots of rogue brown dwarfs out there between the<BR>
stars, unobserved by current telescopes.  Some astronomers believe that<BR>
brown dwarfs make up a good portion of the "missing mass" of the universe.<BR>
They might outnumber red dwarfs by an order of magnitude.  Many of them<BR>
would be paired with companion stars, but some believe there will also be<BR>
large numbers of brown-dwarf singletons.<BR>
<BR>
If you can jump to these dim infra-red stars (and why not?), then the<BR>
number of J-1 destinations for each system will increase dramatically.<BR>
<BR>
[BTW: (shameless plug) There's a terrific hard-SF story, "Halo" by Karl<BR>
Schroeder, set on a frozen planet orbiting a brown dwarf; it's in _Northern<BR>
Suns: The New Anthology of Canadian Science Fiction_ (Tor hc, 1999), edited<BR>
by David Hartwell and --gosh-- me.]<BR>
<BR>
I'd love to use 3D star maps, but I don't have a laptop for running a<BR>
CHVIEW map during gameplay, and 3D maps on paper present too many practical<BR>
problems.  You can't cover a large area without the stars and labels<BR>
overlapping each other.  The 'deeper' the map, the worse the problem<BR>
becomes; I doubt you could fit your entire 60-parsec Hipparcos list onto a<BR>
single map.  So a 3D map has to be limited to a relatively small region of<BR>
space (max 7 or 8 pc across?).  And say you have several 3D maps of<BR>
adjacent areas of space; figuring out routes between the maps becomes a<BR>
major headache.  It's a pain just to visualize the 3D relationships from a<BR>
2D map, let alone work out jump routes.<BR>
<BR>
I wonder if a possible solution might not be a program that could generate<BR>
a separate map (preferably scalable, in postscript) for each and every<BR>
star?  Each map would show all stars within, say, 7 or 8 pc of the star,<BR>
with all Jump-6-or-less routes from that star delineated and distances<BR>
marked.  Or it could generate a distance table for each star, listing the<BR>
distances to its reachable neighbors.  This would save a lot of time<BR>
working out routes during game play.<BR>
<BR>
Does this sound at all do-able?  If I were a programmer, I'd try to write<BR>
it myself.<BR>
<BR>
Thinking out loud,<BR>
<BR>
 + GMG +<BR>
<BR>
               Glenn Grant  <neo@total.net><BR>
_Northern Suns: The New Anthology of Canadian Science Fiction_<BR>
          Edited by David Hartwell & Glenn Grant<BR>
           now in hardcover from Tor Books<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 18:55:15 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Must buy game<BR>
<BR>
>>Is this a real advertising glitch? Like the foreign soda ad saying "Drink<BR>
>>your ancestors!"? (or something like that)<BR>
><BR>
>Yes, it is.  Wonderful, ain't it?<BR>
><BR>
>It was: "Pepsi-cola raises your ancestors fromthe Dead"  (Thailand)<BR>
><BR>
>I just love translation errors.  Like the El Paso airport where every sign<BR>
>with the word "year" in Spanish omitted the tilde over the n....<BR>
<BR>
Or Chevrolet's car, the Nova, which is Latin for "new"... and Spanish<BR>
for "doesn't go"...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 17:57:09 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: K.I.S.S! (was Professional Stereotyping)<BR>
<BR>
- --- Luther Martin <tml@ksarul.com> wrote:<BR>
> Glenn the lawyer wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > <stuff deleted>So we tend to sit<BR>
> > and stew over problems, do research, talk to<BR>
> > colleagues, write letters and motions, etc.  So tv<BR>
> > totally mischaracterizes the length of time needed<BR>
> to<BR>
> > resolve legal issues.<BR>
> <BR>
> Does this explain why lawyers bill by the hour?<BR>
> <BR>
> TV also grossly mischaracterizes engineering.<BR>
> Instead of immmediately<BR>
> reconfiguring the sensor array to zap the bad guys,<BR>
> we need to show the<BR>
> creation of<BR>
> specification documents, design reviews, the quality<BR>
> assurance process, and<BR>
> so on. You certainly can't do this with the BEMs<BR>
> firing some sort of death<BR>
> ray at you.<BR>
> <BR>
> For the Traveller connection, consider how much<BR>
> software that a character,<BR>
> or even a small team,<BR>
> can produce within reasonable game constraints, say<BR>
> weeks to months. How<BR>
> complex can it really get ? How good will his<BR>
> quality assurance process be?<BR>
> Would you trust the functioning of your 100 ZCr ship<BR>
> to it, particularly if<BR>
> you are the bank which owns the mortgage? Are there<BR>
> strict regulations<BR>
> governing the adding/deleting/upgrading of ships'<BR>
> software due to safety<BR>
> concerns (f nothing else)?<BR>
> <BR>
Kyle screamed and replied:<BR>
Aargh! help! save me from the Bureaucratic Process!<BR>
must everything be discussed, debated, decide by<BR>
committee and quality assured? are there not things we<BR>
can just do? with the BEMs firing death rays at you,<BR>
you don't mess about with this rubbish, you just do<BR>
what needs to be done! it might stuff you up, but so<BR>
will convening the Quality Assurance Board Managers,<BR>
who will all be wasted by the BEM BFGs (along with<BR>
everybody else). In the spirit of the percussive<BR>
maintenance thread, and the "not breaking skills down<BR>
too much" thread, too much messing about with details<BR>
like this bogs everything down...<BR>
<BR>
Anyhow, so what if the PCs screw up? Screw ups are<BR>
what make an adventure! If there is no risk of screw<BR>
ups, most of which are self-inflicted, then Traveller<BR>
really is "a game where you run around paying off your debts."<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 18:00:50 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Red Dwarf, canon for MTU<BR>
<BR>
Brandon wrote:<BR>
> My only problem is that I keep thinking: How would<BR>
> this have been handled in <BR>
> _Red Dwarf_?<BR>
<BR>
Of course! I think it's an excellent guide for GMs:<BR>
make it fun. And I think that in the far future,<BR>
people will be just as dumb as we are now. Most<BR>
spacers will NOT have PhDs in Plasma Polarisation Warp<BR>
Engineering, or whatever.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 20:07:54 -0600<BR>
From: "Bont" <felix@felixcafe.com><BR>
Subject: EW Modules<BR>
<BR>
Many moons ago someone posted an EW Module here for GT.  If <BR>
you developed it, please drop me an email.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- - - -<BR>
FELIX (Thomas L Bont)<BR>
<BR>
- - Encrypt your messages!<BR>
  That way only the government knows what you wrote!<BR>
<BR>
- - It is truly the wise man that knows what he doesn't!<BR>
<BR>
- - With your shield or on it ... (Old Spartan Blessing)<BR>
<BR>
- - Fidelitas super omnia, honore excepto<BR>
<BR>
- - Help Stop Forest Fires.  Outlaw Matches.<BR>
<BR>
Be sure to visit The FELIX Cafe at<BR>
     http://www.felixcafe.com/<BR>
<BR>
- - - -<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 21:13:45 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Roger Sanger ... BAD, BAD, BAD???<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 15:17:07 PST<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
><BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>I seem to vaguely recall reading somewhere that due to folks like<BR>
>Roger, many writers and artists have a standard clause in their<BR>
>contracts to the effect that if the work isn't published within some<BR>
>period of time (2 years? 5 years?) it reverts to them.<BR>
<BR>
Sometimes that exists, but it isn't really standard in the rpg game<BR>
industry -- I've only ever seen it once, and that was when I wrote the<BR>
contract. Most game companies (for example, SJ Games) have standard<BR>
contracts that they don't like to change.  In addition, it sometimes _can_<BR>
take a while for a company to publish something, due to shifting<BR>
priorities. GURPS Book of the New Sun and<BR>
GURPS Space Atlas 4 are examples of books that were "sat on" for a couple<BR>
of years before they came out. The best thing to do is to get an advance<BR>
for the work, payable on submission of first draft.  This sort of<BR>
encourages the publisher to print it, since he has already put money into it.<BR>
<BR>
- -david pulver<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:18:48 -0800<BR>
From: "David & Kristin Larson" <davidlarson@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: 3D Star Maps and Jump 1<BR>
<BR>
If there were a cluster of eight isolated stars, each within 1 jump of the<BR>
other, then there would be eight stars each with SEVEN jump 1 destinations.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 15:03:37 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
<BR>
> Also, exactly 8 stars with 8<BR>
> destinations means they're all clustered together, right?<BR>
<BR>
No. I don't think so. Each of the 8 stars that are available as<BR>
destinations from 1 of those stars may have *fewer* (or more) stars<BR>
available as destinations.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 05:45:29 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: Phantom world in the Spinward Marches<BR>
<BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer writes:<BR>
<BR>
>A phantom world in the familiar Spinward Marches:<BR>
>MT Imperial Encyclopedia lists (in Trin's Veil subsector):<BR>
> <BR>
>2632 X895674-8 Ag Ni An R201 Im F3V M0D<BR>
> <BR>
>Notice that it is a Red-Zoned Ancient Site... maybe that is the <BR>
>reason it does not show up in any maps! I would be itnerested to know <BR>
>whether this is an MT artifact or was (wasn't?) already there in <BR>
>earlier versions...<BR>
<BR>
It wasn't.<BR>
 <BR>
>Just speculating... coult it conceivably be the case that the <BR>
>Imperium erases some world from all databanks and consistently <BR>
>manages to hid its existence, until a group of PCs casually finds a <BR>
>very old record with an extra world? Probably not, since it has an <BR>
>F3V main star and it is (would be) next door to an A-starport world, <BR>
>hence probably observable even wihout mechanical aid. But still....<BR>
<BR>
I have a half-finished adventure set on that world lying around. Haven't<BR>
worked on it for a while. I should propably dig it out and finish it up.<BR>
In my version it is a hidden resort world that belonged to one of the<BR>
Kids. That's right. The whole system is hidden by an Ancient stealth<BR>
field. The only way to get there is to misjump inside the field.<BR>
<BR>
>Eskayloyt, anyone? Nah, too large...<grin><BR>
 <BR>
According to a post by Marc Miller on the TML several years ago, Eskaloyt<BR>
used to be in the Shionthy system and was rotated into a pocket universe <BR>
by Grandfather (not the same PU as Grandfather's Universe).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
      Hans Rancke<BR>
University of Copenhagen<BR>
     rancke@diku.dk<BR>
- ------------<BR>
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent<BR>
         events based on the individual situation."<BR>
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 20:56:20 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GT: Trade routes question<BR>
<BR>
- --- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > A quick question. I have gotten to the point of doing the minor<BR>
> > trade routes for the entire Spinward Marches subsector, having <BR>
> > mapped out the major and feeder routes. GT: Far Trader says to <BR>
> > use J-2 routes unless a feeder or above would save a jump or more <BR>
> > or if it is along an x-boat route. Would a minor route then be <BR>
> > able to use a higher jump route created by the major and feeder<BR>
> > process? I can't see why it wouldn't but that eventuality was <BR>
> > not mentioned. If the route is already in existance, my guess is <BR>
> > that a minor route could use it but I wanted to ask for opinions.<BR>
> <BR>
> I think you are working too hard.<BR>
<BR>
Considering the number of hours I have spent on this project, I <BR>
can't argue with that. <g><BR>
 <BR>
> What it sounds like it is saying is that if a minor route is<BR>
> "needed", you should check and see if it is possible to get <BR>
> things there faster by making the route a "stub" off of a <BR>
> feeder or x-boat route, or even making a it a pair of stubs <BR>
> joining to said feeder or X-boat route.<BR>
> <BR>
> Say a j1 to get to the "feeder" and another to get off of it. <BR>
 <BR>
Agreed, and that is how I am doing it, but it was specific in <BR>
saying use jump 2 unless you can save a jump or more on a feeder <BR>
and above or along an x-boat route. The question still remains <BR>
whether the minor routes can go along a feeder or major route <BR>
that has a jump 3 leg. As I said, I rather expect the answer <BR>
to be that it can but want opinions on whether the minor routes <BR>
can use the j-3 legs or not.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Terry Mixon<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 00:03:41 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Must buy game (No go on Nova)<BR>
<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Or Chevrolet's car, the Nova, which is Latin for "new"... and Spanish<BR>
> for "doesn't go"...<BR>
<BR>
Nope. It's not Spanish for "no go". That would be "no va", and the accented<BR>
syllables are reversed, so it wouldn't even really sound the same. This is a<BR>
very popular urban legend, but its status as legend has been verified.<BR>
<BR>
The Chevy Nova did fine in Spanish speaking markets.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 23:59:13 -0600<BR>
From: William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Cannon Fodder<BR>
<BR>
You don't, I will. That is a _great_ frigging idea. W/ H.Sap.Neianderthal<BR>
(Sp is totally trashed. Sorry.) as the Supervisors? (Hey 300k wasn't the<BR>
_last_ time grampa visted...)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> The Droyne Warriors in TP were just that: Droyne.  (It would have more fun<BR>
> if the stasis shells had collapsed and the players found themselves facing<BR>
> a horde of H. erectus carrying disintegrators.. hmm.. may have to re-write<BR>
> that for the next run..)<BR>
> <BR>
> - -- <BR>
> <BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
> <BR>
> TML Great Old One<BR>
> Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse<BR>
> Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.<BR>
> <BR>
> --------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
William<BR>
<BR>
Live without fear; your Creator loves you     | William Barnett-Lewis<BR>
as a mother. Go in peace to follow the good   | mailto://wlewis@mailbag.com<BR>
road and may God's blessing be with           |<BR>
you always.                                   |<BR>
St. Claire                                    |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 00:14:27 -0600<BR>
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Sci fi films<BR>
<BR>
Thomas Vickers wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Like my friend who did his duty in the American Navy claims<BR>
>"Navy ships have lots of chrome so that bored sailors can polish it"<BR>
><BR>
>Probably true in any situation involving the military and bored<BR>
recruits :)<BR>
<BR>
they don't have much chrome but they do have LOTS of brass (door knobs,<BR>
pipes, plaques, control panels, etc., etc.) that needs to be polished.<BR>
<BR>
Charles<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 01:15:28 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Cannon Fodder<BR>
<BR>
William Barnett-Lewis wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> You don't, I will. That is a _great_ frigging idea. W/ H.Sap.Neianderthal<BR>
> (Sp is totally trashed. Sorry.) as the Supervisors? (Hey 300k wasn't the<BR>
> _last_ time grampa visted...)<BR>
> <BR>
> > The Droyne Warriors in TP were just that: Droyne.  (It would have more fun<BR>
> > if the stasis shells had collapsed and the players found themselves facing<BR>
> > a horde of H. erectus carrying disintegrators.. hmm.. may have to re-write<BR>
> > that for the next run..)<BR>
<BR>
And then there are the Kromaggs....<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:24:13 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Must buy game<BR>
<BR>
I wanted to find out if there was any truth to the Pepsi and American<BR>
Express stories. Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything that was concrete<BR>
on either one. However, all of the references I could find about Pepsi's<BR>
possible error cited the Chevy Nova / no va story as an earlier example of<BR>
this sort of pitfall, and that legend has been debunked for years now. As<BR>
far as the internet goes, I haven't found any reliable cites concerning the<BR>
other stories, which really causes me to doubt their accuracy.<BR>
<BR>
Do keep in mind that the assumption that these stories make is absurd. Since<BR>
the dawn of the mass-market advertising campaign, multinational corporations<BR>
have relied heavily on local firms and expertise for advertising. They have<BR>
to, not just because of possible translation errors, but because it would be<BR>
too expensive not to.<BR>
<BR>
Still, stories like these find a wide distribution in respectable<BR>
newspapers, magazines and even classrooms. The Chevy Nova legend was one I<BR>
heard in a high-school history class to illustrate what happens when<BR>
cultures clash.<BR>
<BR>
I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned Coca-Cola and "bite the wax tadpole"<BR>
yet.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:32:23 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy (Colin Michael)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Sci fi films<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@worldnet.att.net><BR>
> they don't have much chrome but they do have LOTS of brass (door knobs,<BR>
> pipes, plaques, control panels, etc., etc.) that needs to be polished.<BR>
<BR>
...and the ships bell, clocks, portholes, ward room rails, windlasses,<BR>
cleats... heck, the ship I was on had a foundry.  If we ever came close to<BR>
running out of things to polish they could always cast more!<BR>
<BR>
- -Crusty<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:04:29 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I'd love to use 3D star maps, but I don't have a laptop for running a<BR>
> CHVIEW map during gameplay, and 3D maps on paper present too many practical<BR>
> problems.  You can't cover a large area without the stars and labels<BR>
> overlapping each other.  The 'deeper' the map, the worse the problem<BR>
> becomes; I doubt you could fit your entire 60-parsec Hipparcos list onto a<BR>
> single map.  So a 3D map has to be limited to a relatively small region of<BR>
> space (max 7 or 8 pc across?).  And say you have several 3D maps of<BR>
> adjacent areas of space; figuring out routes between the maps becomes a<BR>
> major headache.  It's a pain just to visualize the 3D relationships from a<BR>
> 2D map, let alone work out jump routes.<BR>
<BR>
What I've considered (for an area containing less than 100 stars) was<BR>
building a *model*. Make a based out of plastic or wood, drill holes at<BR>
the right spots and have the stars be beads on the end of carefully<BR>
measured lengths of piano wire. Glue the wires in place (and maybe add<BR>
labels attached to the wires, near the stars) and you've got a *real*<BR>
3-D map. <BR>
<BR>
If you were crazy enough, you could add extra sections to expand it<BR>
horizontally. Expanding it vertically doesn't seem very practical. <BR>
<BR>
> I wonder if a possible solution might not be a program that could generate<BR>
> a separate map (preferably scalable, in postscript) for each and every<BR>
> star?  Each map would show all stars within, say, 7 or 8 pc of the star,<BR>
> with all Jump-6-or-less routes from that star delineated and distances<BR>
> marked.  Or it could generate a distance table for each star, listing the<BR>
> distances to its reachable neighbors.  This would save a lot of time<BR>
> working out routes during game play.<BR>
<BR>
Both of those sound like partial solutions. Just remember that you'll<BR>
need to computer to handle misjumps!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 00:52:00 -0600<BR>
From: "Kurtis Rodgers" <kurtis@fastlane.net><BR>
Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 15:03:37 PST<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
<snip><BR>
> > Notice, we only have one star that you can't go anywhere from at J1, but<BR>
the<BR>
> > average number of destinations is only 1.<BR>
><BR>
> I find this *highly* suspect, given that said star is *Sol*. If it<BR>
> isn't, either your database or algorithm is broken.<BR>
<BR>
Your right.., it is Sol.  I hadn't actually bothered to look at the Sol<BR>
destination results yet.  Here they are - if they're wrong, then I<BR>
definitely made a mistake with my cartesian coodinates:<BR>
<BR>
J1dest      J2dest      J3dest      J4dest      J5dest      J6dest<BR>
- ----------- ----------- ----------- ----------- ----------- -----------<BR>
0           4           3           15          18          26<BR>
<BR>
> > Also, exactly 8 stars with 8<BR>
> > destinations means they're all clustered together, right?<BR>
><BR>
> No. I don't think so. Each of the 8 stars that are available as<BR>
> destinations from 1 of those stars may have *fewer* (or more) stars<BR>
> available as destinations.<BR>
<BR>
Yep.  Just sloppy/wishful thinking in my part.  Still, the idea of a<BR>
discrete J1 cluster of 8 stars could be intestesting from a worldbuilder's<BR>
perspective.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
> > Youch!  Over half the sample lacks any J2 destination at all.  This<BR>
knocks<BR>
> > the average down to 1.  Hmm.  This definitely needs more looking into -<BR>
to<BR>
> > make sure its not a mistake, if nothing else.<BR>
><BR>
> It is a mistake. Since you aren't counting J-1 destinations you get<BR>
> this sort of "artifact". You need to be searching for J-1 destinations,<BR>
> J-2 *or less*, J-3 *or less*, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Um...  <sarcasm deleted>  My intent was to show the 'J3 or less' numbers<BR>
first, and then break that out into specific jump detail.  That was the<BR>
point.  The exclusive J1 & J3 numbers did not exhibit any such "artifact".<BR>
I still think its fishy given the plethora of J1 destinations.  It was my<BR>
gut feeling that either the J1 or J2 numbers had to be off, becuase they<BR>
don't make much sense combined..., and I now know why!<BR>
<BR>
It turns out my J1 destination counts were royally screwed by a flaming f-up<BR>
on my part.  The algorithm that compiled the J1 destination counts neglected<BR>
to excluded the source star itself, inflating all the J1 counts by 1.  This<BR>
explains the ridiculous disparity between the J1 & J2 counts.  The numbers<BR>
for Sol did not reflect this error because I added those records with a<BR>
different query.  Thus the false uniqueness of Sol's lack of J1<BR>
destinations.  DOH.  Sigh.., a thousand lashes with a greasy wet noodle for<BR>
me!  : )  Sorry folks.<BR>
<BR>
The bogus destination records are easily corrected (delete destinations<BR>
where source = destination).  Lo and behold, the corrected J1 numbers are<BR>
much more in line with the J2 counts.  I'll repost the result set in a<BR>
subsequent email.<BR>
<BR>
> Another thing. Given the way Traveller maps things, you may hant to be<BR>
> looking for "Less than J-1.5", "Less than J-2.5" etc.<BR>
<BR>
This is a very good point.  I should have specifically pointed out one of my<BR>
assumptions in measuring jump factors was Jump-1 equals *exactly* one parsec<BR>
or less.  Thus, a displacement magnitude of 3.00000001 parsecs would yield a<BR>
jump requirement of J4.  This, again, points to a need for finer granularity<BR>
in my destination analysis.  This is exactly the sort of thing this test<BR>
database was created to vette.  Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Kurtis<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 02:27:59 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Cannon Fodder<BR>
<BR>
Aha, another Sliders fan!  :)<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 1999 1:15 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Cannon Fodder<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> William Barnett-Lewis wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > You don't, I will. That is a _great_ frigging idea. W/<BR>
H.Sap.Neianderthal<BR>
> > (Sp is totally trashed. Sorry.) as the Supervisors? (Hey 300k wasn't the<BR>
> > _last_ time grampa visted...)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > The Droyne Warriors in TP were just that: Droyne.  (It would have more<BR>
fun<BR>
> > > if the stasis shells had collapsed and the players found themselves<BR>
facing<BR>
> > > a horde of H. erectus carrying disintegrators.. hmm.. may have to<BR>
re-write<BR>
> > > that for the next run..)<BR>
><BR>
> And then there are the Kromaggs....<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:22:29 -0600<BR>
From: "Kurtis Rodgers" <kurtis@fastlane.net><BR>
Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
<BR>
Ok, in case you missed it in a previous post, I screwed up my Jump-1<BR>
destination totals.  This will throw off most of the numbers I've posted so<BR>
far to some degree.  I am going to re-write my scripts to generate numbers<BR>
for parsec fractions, and perhaps lightyears as well.  The final chart that<BR>
summarizes all that data will get posted on a web page, hopefully during<BR>
this coming week.  In the meantime, here are the corrected  Jump-1<BR>
destination totals.<BR>
_____<BR>
<BR>
Jump-1 Destinations, Corrected<BR>
<BR>
The first result column is the count of destinations available to a star at<BR>
Jump-1.  The second column is the number of stars to which the destination<BR>
count applies.  The third column is the percent of the total sample that the<BR>
star count makes up.<BR>
<BR>
Destinations Star Count  Percent<BR>
- ------------ ----------- -------<BR>
0            5153        51.90<BR>
1            2706        27.25<BR>
2            964          9.71<BR>
3            362          3.65<BR>
4            180          1.81<BR>
5            97           0.98<BR>
6            60           0.60<BR>
7            44           0.44<BR>
8            38           0.38<BR>
9            36           0.36<BR>
10           46           0.46<BR>
...<BR>
15           24           0.24<BR>
...<BR>
20           7            0.07<BR>
...<BR>
25           1            0.01<BR>
_____<BR>
<BR>
It looks to be a tough galaxy out there for those J1 merchants - this<BR>
(combined with the harsh J2 totals) is why fudging with the jump factors<BR>
seems to be a popular adjustment.  These are just gross counts though..,<BR>
what I really want to see are the numbers for J1 clusters/mains.  I'll try<BR>
to work on that later this week.<BR>
<BR>
Kurtis<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:02:07 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Cleaning (was Re: Sci fi films)<BR>
<BR>
>Like my friend who did his duty in the American Navy claims<BR>
>"Navy ships have lots of chrome so that bored sailors can polish it"<BR>
><BR>
>Probably true in any situation involving the military and bored recruits :)<BR>
<BR>
 "Okay Ladies," sez the Marine Master Sergeant, "since you can't keep your <BR>
kits clean, we'll see how you do with the Navy's.  This is a Mark One <BR>
Toothbrush; that is the largest head on this boat. Get polishing."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1443<BR>
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